Theos-Talk Archives (May 2011 Message tt00030)

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ÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ The Orlando Lodge is innocent until proven guilty.
Katinka we are trying to get at the truth here and you have clearly not offered 
any new clarity to the ongoing controversy.
Orlando Lodge loses its charter and all of its assets and your comment here 
about people who are trying to get at the truth as "online rants" lacks 
compassion and an understanding of the issues involved. What a callous attitude 
you have adopted when so many at the Orlando lodge are forced to experience such 
anguish over their possible futures. 

Katinka: I totally agree that it would have been good if more specific 
information was forthcoming. However, a few years ago a Dutch lodge in my region 
got expelled. In that case there had been financial issues. Before the lodge was 
expelled, it went all the way up to Radha, as it has gone in this case too. 

DC. Are you inferring here Katinka that the Orlando situation is about financial 
issues?

Katinka: Lodges getting expelled has been a rare but regular occurrence for over 
a century. 


Personally I think the opinion of the federation is way more relevant than mine 
is, or yours: they've had to work with these people, so they're opinion is based 
on more than reading online rants by people with nothing better to do than write 
them. Anonymously. 

DC. People are seeking clarification here because they have been done what 
appears as an injustice and you flippantly relegate their inquiries to "online 
rants". I wonder how you would feel if your website and Theosophical blog had 
been up and running for 75 years and then without any clarity around the charges 
just shut down and all of your assets seized.

Katinka. ÂBetty bland and the TSA in general are in a bind here: they're being 
accused at an online tribunal. But they can't defend themselves to anybodies 
satisfaction without defaming the members of the Orlando lodge. 

DC. Lets not put the cart before the horses here. National started the lawsuit, 
a lawsuit that until its accusations are proven by facts is not justifiable. And 
you think we or the Orlando lodge should sympathize with Nationals discomfort. 
Those who are seeking the truth and post here on theos-talk are not the tribunal 
it is National that has taken this aggressive and unspiritual action. They 
created the problem to begin with and they should now be responsible for their 
actions. This is a case on your part of misguided idealism. You are clearly 
sympathizing with those who started this crises in the first place and not the 
Orlando Lodge which is the recipient of National aggressive and predatory 
actions.
Let's see if I understand your line of Âreasoning here Katinka I accuse you of 
certain violations take all your assets and excommunicate you from the greater 
theosophical society but because it might defame you I refuse to clarify what 
the charges are that are being brought against you. Somebody needs a reality 
check here Katinka. You are clearly siding with National and are not interested 
in the facts. Blind obedience will never make a person into a true theosophist. 
Can you not see the perverse logic you present here in this situation or 
analysis on your part?

Katinka. "They know full well that they can't sign their own name, because that 
would jeopardize their current or potentially future jobs. 

DC. In the real world if you penalize someone and seize all of their assets you 
have to state what the particular facts or charges are that have led up to this 
act. To simply say that the accusers can say nothing further because it might 
jeopardize their jobs is ludicrous and defies all common definitions of what is 
considered as fair or right. If National and its official representatives are 
not willing to stand behind their actions with information to support there 
claims they should have never made them in the first place. They have affected 
many good people's lives adversely and it is obvious from your statements that 
they are looking out for their own best interest and not the interest of the 
Orlando Theosophists
ÂYour statement Katinka that " As in: if they publicly prove the misconduct of 
the leaders of that lodge, they're definitely being unbrotherly". 

This statement of yours quoting National is beyond my understanding that anybody 
could make it on a public forum like theos-talk for future generations of 
theosophists to read or examine. This perverse statement by National will go 
down in theosophical history as a great travesty of justice. National takes away 
Orlando's Charter, seizes all of their assets, disgrace them in front of the 
whole theosophical world and then National rationalizes its behavior and 
justifies why it cannot substantiate their actions because it might seem 
"unbrotherly.
Â
Â
ÂI cannot understand Katinka why you cannot see the real issues here and keep 
obscuring the truth with token gestures of goodwill and vague statements. In the 
real world if you harm another person or group in any way you better be prepared 
to justify why you did it.
ÂHere in the US and all civilized countries a person or group is assumed 
innocent until proven guilty by a court of law or by a jury of his pears. The 
Orlando Lodge is innocent until proven guilty. Cannot you see that by National 
failing to supply the facts this issue is not going away but simply grows in 
intensity over time?

Katinka . Betty has no such anonymity to hide behind. She has the reputation of 
the whole TSA to consider. 

DC. Excuse me but what about the reputation of the Orlando lodge and why would 
she need to hide behind anything if the facts she knows could justify National 
aggressive behavior with the Orlando lodge.

Katinka. I can only confirm that I knew of these difficulties years ago, a I've 
stated before. In fact: a search in the archives here ought to confirm much the 
same thing. Even if going back a few years less than the trouble did actually 
start.

I do not think it's my place to publish private emails, so I'm not going to even 
try to prove anything. 

DC. It's nice of you to act as an intermediary for National but sooner or later 
they are going to have to come out of hiding and justify their actions. Why 
should you have to prove anything since it is not you who are being penalized?

Your statements Katinka that National cannot be more specific about its charges 
and decision to pull the Orlando charter will in the long run become 
counterproductive and ironically create the very thing they are attempting to 
avoid which is accountability and transparency.
National is fast becoming an exclusive click and hierarchy that is so powerful 
and self absorbed it thinks it can exist in its own self contained bubble or 
subjective vacuum and exists outside of the law be it common law or spiritual 
law. It appears to be looking out for its own good and is trying to hide behind 
executive privileged. ÂA ploy all political and religious systems use to avoid 
any responsibility for their actions and keep a shroud of secrecy over the 
pertinent fact
In conclusion I regret to say when all things are considered National is looking 
for conformity in its members and groups. Original thought or variations from 
party politics will not be accepted. ÂThis attitude goes against the very fabric 
of true theosophy which is to think for yourself and explore beyond the common 
and obvious.
ÂNational has demonstrated it lacks moral fiber in its attempt to seize 
Orlando's assets and charter and then refuses to take responsibility for its 
actions by trying to cover its behavior behind a shroud of false altruism and 
goodwill. It is such an irony and so contradictory that they don't want to 
appear "unbrotherly" in the wake of their actions against the Orlando lodge that 
is clearly unspiritual ÂÂand is as far from brotherhood as anyone could ever 
imagine. And people are baffled by why theosophy is on the decline.
Blessings to those who live in the truth and may karma be swift and just to 
those who use theosophy as a veneer for their own personal agendas.
Duane




________________________________
From: t_s_theosophist <THEOSOPHIST@jSUnE3KdQazRF3Enw4niGCktOSJDxECCd0wBNqaIkxk4jvSLDQDxLdH9Rg2YULCSg7vXbpKH6rnYQpckWLyX.yahoo.invalid>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 4:47:44 PM
Subject: theos-talk KATINKAS MIS-INFORFMATION

 


KATINKAS MIS-INFORMATION

Katinnka has every right to express her opinions. However she has no right to 
continue to spread mis-information and make unfounded allegations and give the 
airs that she is privy to "secret information" about issues concerning Orlando 
Lodge. She has NO information, only her assumptions and opinion. 


She has also laced her comments with outright LIES. She has never had any 
contacts with members at Orlando Lodge. And the responses from Orlando Lodge 
have never been anonymous. I always back up my 

responses and posts with my name.
I have nothing to hide.

Katinka is very good at gossip mongering and meddeling in things 
which she has no direct information about. She admits that she has no 
documentation, which right there blows a huge hole in her credibility. 

Lets stick to FACTS, Documented
Facts, and stop the innuendo and libelous gossip. 

A challenge to Katinka, are you up to Playing Fair, and Above board,
and stopping the rumor mongering?

William Delahunt

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