Theos-Talk Archives (October 2011 Message tt00186)

Dear Cass and friends

My views are:

Cass wrote:
Blavatsky did not advocate skepticism of other religions or philosophies.  She wasn't sceptical of Olcott or the Jesuits or the 
Spiritualists or the Freemasons she pointed out the evil or misguided thinking behind these organizations.  Until we know a persons motives we are not in a position to judge or be skeptical. 

M. Sufilights says:
Being sceptical involves avoiding blind belief and avoiding a fanatical and dogmatic stance. And Blavatsky encouraged scepticism very much - saying the opposite is clearly as false accusation. To point out other organisations misguided thinking - is also in various respects involving scepticism. The structure of the Theosophical Society in 1875-1891 involved a rejection of dogmatism and contrast to Church organisations, and Christian and Spiritual sects.
I am merely suggesting this to people. If people prefer avoiding psychological change, it is of course their choice.
Organisations calling themselves theosophical or esoteric or something else, and who carefully avoids - comparative studying as a primary option - not seldom create a sectarian behaviour and conditions the members of their own particular organisation. This effectively establishes various levels of Subtle Mind Control, unless the individual already is aware of the proces and seek to counter it. 
These are my views.


M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cass Silva 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 3:44 AM
  Subject: Re: theos-talk Subtle Psychological Keys - Sectarianism or Politics in Lucist Trust and TS?


    
  Blavatsky did not advocate skepticism of other religions or philosophies.  She wasn't sceptical of Olcott or the Jesuits or the 
  Spiritualists or the Freemasons she pointed out the evil or misguided thinking behind these organizations.  Until we know a persons motives we are not in a position to judge or be skeptical.  Leadbeaters motives were clear when establishing the Liberal Church, his and Besant's treatise on the structure of atomic matter has been proven by science to be false.  Hence, imo, they are fair game. 
  Who knows whether or not HPB was referring to Leadbeater when she spoke of subtle mind control, as imo, he certainly turned Besant around.

  As far as AB goes, and as I have only dabbled into her teachings, as yet I have not found anything that contradicts what HPB said.

  Oh, and as a living example, by responding to your post  I am participating in a form of subtle mind control from you!

  Cass

  >________________________________
  >From: M. Sufilight <global-theosophy@m2Kb23o-MjSdbjkjrZxz1PLUU7rhIY9uPx6epEsInm4hq8WFez8f21EgI3nf8y1oGaJM5ZHzxcdUlLiEmBU7nLJO2ZQJWQ.yahoo.invalid>
  >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  >Sent: Sunday, 30 October 2011 11:12 PM
  >Subject: Re: theos-talk Subtle Psychological Keys - Sectarianism or Politics in Lucist Trust and TS?
  >
  >
  >  
  >Dear Cass
  >
  >My views are:
  >
  >You mentioned my name.
  >
  >Let me seek to explain...so that your imprecise remark might be understood better.
  >
  >J. Krishnamurti said:
  >" I wonder if you realize that the word 'scepticism', questioning, enquiring, is not advocated in the Christian world. Whereas in Buddhism, and Hinduism, that is one of the essential things, you must question everything, until you discover or come upon that truth, which is not yours, or any others, it is truth."
  >
  >But vital difference between groups is of course unimportant, when social get-to-gethers and agreements masked as deeply spiritual are viewed as of primary importance --- instead of understanding the emotional level it operates on and its hopeless lack of being adequate when seen from a more holistic or all-inclusive perspective. The latter option seem much better.
  >I do hope that this will help to understand, that it is not really as such a question about promoting what you call "disparity" Cass.
  >It is much more precisely a question about 'scepticism', questioning, enquiring, --- something not used much in the Western countries and not among Christians. COMPARATIVE STUDYING was and is after all one of the main aims of the Theosophical Society. An aim which the Alice A. Bailey group seek to throw away by promoting Lucis Trust and their other groups.
  >And it is also a question about whether any Theosophical groups or Esoteric groups or sects use Subtle Mind Control.
  >
  >Blavatsky already warned about one sect using Subtle Mind Control in her time.......
  >
  >H.P. Blavatsky warned her esoteric students in 1889:
  >
  >". . . A new and rapidly growing DANGER ... is
  >threatening ... the spread of the PURE Esoteric
  >Philosophy and knowledge. . . . I allude to those
  >charlatanesque imitations of Occultism and Theosophy.
  >. . . "
  >
  >"By pandering to the prejudices of people, and
  >especially by adopting the FALSE ideas of a personal
  >God and a personal, carnalized Saviour, as the
  >groundwork of their teaching, the leaders of this
  >"swindle"; (for such it is) are endeavoring to draw
  >men to them and in particular to turn Theosophists
  >from THE TRUE PATH."
  >
  >". . . A close examination will assuredly reveal. . .
  >materials largely stolen . . . from Theosophical
  >writings. . . [and] distorted and falsified so as to
  >be palmed off on the unwary as revelations of new and
  >undreamed of truths. But many will neither have the
  >time nor the opportunity for such a thorough
  >investigation; and before they become aware of the
  >imposture they may be LED FAR from the Truth. . . . "
  >
  >"Nothing is more dangerous to Esoteric Truth than the
  >GARBLED AND DISTORTED versions disfigured to suit the
  >prejudices and tastes of men in general." H. P.
  >Blavatsky, E.S. Instruction No. I., 1889. Caps added.
  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theosophy/message/185
  >
  >But of course I am wrong and Blavatsky is wrong --- or are we?
  >
  >M. Sufilight
  >
  >----- Original Message ----- 
  >From: Cass Silva 
  >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  >Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 2:34 AM
  >Subject: Re: theos-talk Subtle Psychological Keys - Sectarianism or Politics in Lucist Trust and TS?
  >
  >All this, twoing and frowing between various paths must leave a noviate thinking that theosophy is as inconsistent as religion is.
  >Morten has been encouraging the disparity for years.
  >Cass
  >
  >>________________________________
  >>From: Jeremy Condick <jpcondick2011@e44i5V91i07F6zGeNr0hvblQmSfqZbIyIyj89I2DCUnGGFczljTlbIOdM7th1B97M5Pw-l7VS7_en_xJQqY.yahoo.invalid>
  >>To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  >>Sent: Sunday, 30 October 2011 7:20 AM
  >>Subject: RE: theos-talk Subtle Psychological Keys - Sectarianism or Politics in Lucist Trust and TS?
  >>
  >>
  >> 
  >>
  >>Thanks, Cass.
  >>
  >>Well the letter addressed a certain point and made it very clearly. I agree on your point of stepping stones and there are various occult schools that offer a study and meditation curriculum. I have stressed on occasion the path of 'Brotherhood' have I not? JPC.
  >>
  >>
  >>> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  >>> From: silva_cass@ufO5c4tiajj6U3zHwh2SqHZQRKl1dSH5qZ_gqjJpMI4cpLMVzU7hJnCbr4NB6dl0uOxze56dNdX3S9PWNMk.yahoo.invalid
  >>> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 18:47:46 -0700
  >>> Subject: Re: theos-talk Subtle Psychological Keys - Sectarianism or Politics in Lucist Trust and TS?
  >>> 
  >>> What difference does it matter which path one takes as they are only stepping stones to discovering the truth for ourselves.
  >>> Cass
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >>> >________________________________
  >>> >From: Jeremy Condick <jpcondick2011@e44i5V91i07F6zGeNr0hvblQmSfqZbIyIyj89I2DCUnGGFczljTlbIOdM7th1B97M5Pw-l7VS7_en_xJQqY.yahoo.invalid>
  >>> >To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  >>> >Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2011 10:33 AM
  >>> >Subject: RE: theos-talk Subtle Psychological Keys - Sectarianism or Politics in Lucist Trust and TS?
  >>> >
  >>> >
  >>> > 
  >>> >
  >>> >"If an organisation are having a leader or a group of leaders (often with its own leader as well) - who forwards a doctrine or teachings given by one single author or just a uniform doctrine - ON BEHALF OF THE MEMBERS - of its organisation - then we are in truth talking about a sectarian organisation." 
  >>> >
  >>> >JPC: The Lucis Trust offers study of a number of books. Namely, The Alice Bailey books, The Secret Doctrine, Isis Unveiled and other theosophical material, and the books of Helena Roerich' Agni Yoga. There is an extensive lending library of miscellaneous old and hard to find books by numerous authors, and also a continuous study of other authors works more contempary relating to science, philosophy and other subjects. The scope is very extensive indeed and does not adhere to one single author. 
  >>> >
  >>> >It is non Political insofar as it does not promote one party over another or take part in contempary party politics. It is working for right human relations and the spreading of goodwill and cooperates with those who also work for the same in so far as they are able, no matter what party political persuasion they may or may not personally have. Students are not accepted according to political leanings and personal politics are not entered into. 
  >>> >
  >>> >The UN is seen as the best chance humanity has of discussing or resolving international problems. Whether it works or has corruption has no bearing on the overall objective of seeking world harmony. This is a ideal to work towards and may as yet be imperfect as so much in life is today or ever has been. Right human relations are worked towards and this is the philosophy of the teachings. 
  >>> >
  >>> >> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  >>> >> From: global-theosophy@m2Kb23o-MjSdbjkjrZxz1PLUU7rhIY9uPx6epEsInm4hq8WFez8f21EgI3nf8y1oGaJM5ZHzxcdUlLiEmBU7nLJO2ZQJWQ.yahoo.invalid
  >>> >> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 22:19:22 +0200
  >>> >> Subject: theos-talk Subtle Psychological Keys - Sectarianism or Politics in Lucist Trust and TS?
  >>> >> 
  >>> >> Dear friends
  >>> >> 
  >>> >> My views are:
  >>> >> 
  >>> >> Sorry about this lengthy relpy. But It seems from where I stand important to cover the subject as clearly as possible without writing a whole book about it.
  >>> >> 
  >>> >> Now as a Seeker after Truth and Wisdom and seeking to promote altruism, I often seek comparative studying so to avoid a narrowminded or sectarian out-look upon life.
  >>> >> And I am also in the below seeking to show some of the problems and issues so to speak which our present time year 2011 are facing compared with the past with regard to the non-sectarian Theosophical Society as it was given in 1875-1891, and before it changed and became more or less sectarian after the year 1910. My study will focus on whether the Theosophical Society as it was given in 1875-1891 was political or sectarian - and - on whether the very widespread esoteric mother-organisation Lucis Trust behind the Alice A. Bailey followers are sectarian or non-sectarian, as well as political or non-political in their activities.
  >>> >> I do this because there seem to be a great deal of confusion with regard to how the word "sectarian" is defined and what it implies or can imply. Other definitions than the one given by me in the below might be useful. But I seek to stick to the present day scientists and their definition of the word "sectarian". And this I think cannot be unimportant. Further it is also well-known that the word "political" have many definitions attached to it. I do hope however that my words in the below are sufficient to cover the aspects involved in the presentation I have forwarded.
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  >>> 
  >>> 
  >>> ------------------------------------
  >>> 
  >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >>> 
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