Theos-Talk Archives (February 2012 Message tt00019)

Donât think so. 

 

From: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MKR
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 11:34 AM
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: theos-talk Re: Reply to Govert and questions about Emma Britten and AÃvanhov

 

  

Is Meade's book available as a pdf file?

On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Govert Schuller <schuller@3BSVtDORTxqaxsUS9Z3SDrGfpKwPlWNAqKQeCT_X3kfwYINtAjgP6fKOBxlMnxq-bgwsh9ozjBVVgAZi.yahoo.invalid <mailto:schuller%40alpheus.org> >wrote:

> **
>
>
> Dear Paulo,
>
> I think you might be too negatively influenced by Carritherâs rhetoric. He
> makes good points, but also less good points, and gives the impression that
> the books in question are worthless and that therefore HPB stands
> vindicated. I do not agree. Meade and Williams also make good points, and
> lesser points, and are indeed quite straightforward in their disbelief of
> HPB. Meade does not proceed from an axiomatically held materialist
> position.
> She acknowledges that there were psychic phenomena connected with HPB but
> also thinks there was enough trickery by HPB to conclude that she was a
> fraud. I think every Theosophist should read the Meade book (and then the
> Carrithers review) to make up their own mind.
>
> From: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>  [mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf Of paulobaptista_v
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 3:06 PM
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com> 
>
> Subject: theos-talk Re: Reply to Govert and questions about Emma Britten
> and
> AÃvanhov
>
> Dear Govert,
>
> I understand your approach and I would have liked that Meade, Peter
> Washington and others, who have portrayed a negative image of HPB, had done
> just that, a comparison of the favorable and the unfavorable views, but
> without preconceptions. I have never read Meade, Williams or Washington's
> biographies of Blavatsky, but I am familiar with the replies written by
> some
> theosophists. It still surprises me how difficult it seems to be (even for
> some who are scholars) to analyze a certain subject without some
> preconceptions like "Psychic phenomena does not exist so HPB was a fraud"
> or
> "The existence of Mahatmas with strange powers is something that cannot be
> real, so they are a product of her imagination". That's not a very
> scientific approach and even for a journalist those assumptions are
> incorrect starting points. The number of inaccuracies in the unfavorable
> HPB
> biographies is very high (dates, places, etcâ) and this only happens
> because
> some of those authors were not primarily concerned in producing a rigorous
> work. They prefer to simply give their personal views, based on
> interpretations (sometimes distorted) of pre-selected events that can
> suggest that their preconceived ideas are correct.
> In the links below you can see examples of the kind of mistakes that these
> authors have in their books:
>
> http://blavatskyfoundation.org/abstractionfromtbf.htm
> http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/theos/baboon.htm
>
> I am not interested in wasting my time reading books that follow this line
> of thought, that's why I made that remark about Meade's book.
> I read some biographic accounts concerning HPB (Cranston, Overton Fuller,
> Olcott, Cleather, Goodrick-Clarke, Neff, Wachtmeister, Kingsland) and I'm
> satisfied with my current perspective of who she was. HPB was not perfect
> of
> course, but people seem to prefer focusing on her faults instead of trying
> to understand some of her actions and the conditions she had to face to
> achieve her goal. Most important of all, they forget about the message and
> teachings that she brought to the world.
>
> I think that a definitive biography has not been made yet, and if someone
> wants to take that enterprise, of course he/she has to take in account
> those
> who were against her. All possibilities must be considered, but lies must
> be
> discarded.
>
> I think that I got no answer to my questions about Emma Britten, so I will
> try again.
> Blavatsky and Emma became enemies right after the release of Art Magic?
> When
> did Emma leave the TS?
>
> I would also like to get some opinions from the members of theos-talk
> concerning Omraam MikhaÃl AÃvanhov. He is rather popular here in Portugal
> in
> some circles (for example amongst some of the teachers of Lisbon's biggest
> astrology school) and it seems that the same happens in France. DonÂt know
> if the same applies to the English-speaking world. Is he in some way
> connected to theosophy? His master, Peter Deunov used a lexicon that seems
> to have something in common with theosophy. Deunov also had some sort of
> connection with K, after the end of Order of the Star of the East. What is
> your opinion about AÃvanhov?
>
> PB
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>  <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>
> "Govert Schuller" <schuller@...> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Paulo,
> >
> >
> >
> > You bring up a lot of interesting issues. Though I can't deal with them
> all,
> > I only like to suggest that two negatives don't make a positive in this
> > investigation of HPB. The criticisms by HPB apologists of the works by
> HPB
> > skeptics do not amount automatically to a vindication of HPB. Though
> their
> > methodologies might be faulty, they still might be right. Besides that,
> even
> > Daniel admits that one can learn a lot, though with caution, from the HPB
> > biographies by Meade and Williams. As a Theosophist one might not find
> them
> > palatable, they're still important to read, even if only to get familiar
> > with what's out there fundamentally critiquing HPB.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>  <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>  <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com> ]
>
> On
> > Behalf Of paulobaptista_v
> > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 2:35 PM
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>  <mailto:theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: theos-talk About Emma Britten and the torch-bearer of truth
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you Govert for all you wrote about K.
> >
> > I do not agree with your perspective on Blavatsky. My ideas about her are
> > closer to Daniel's.
> > I was appalled to see Marion Meade's biography about Blavatsky mentioned
> as
> > a good book, when her statements on this video
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vThc0c1WIug
> > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vThc0c1WIug
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vThc0c1WIug <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vThc0c1WIug&feature=related> &feature=related>
>
> &feature=related>
> > &feature=related
> > (check also parts 1, 3 and 4)
> >
> > confirm the warnings made by Carrithers
> > http://blavatskyfoundation.org/abstractionfromtbf.htm
> >
> > I see no use in reading a book based on older books that are known to
> depict
> > lies.
> >
> > For me, the most interesting biography about Blavatsky is "Blavatsky and
> her
> > teachers", by Jean Overton Fuller. Although not a biography in a strict
> way,
> > Daniel's "The Esoteric World of Mme Blavatsky" is also extremely helpful
> if
> > you want to know the arguments of those who were for and against the Old
> > Lady.
> >
> > I donÂt have a good impression about Elizabeth Claire Prophet, although I
> > admit I do not have enough information on her. I know that in
> alpheus.org
> > there are some articles about Prophet, and I intend to read them. She won
> > the Ig Nobel prize in 2011 for predicting the end of world in the year of
> > 1990 and some of her sons have strongly criticized her. Check what one of
> > them had to say in 2006:
> >
> >
>
> http://www.blacksunjournal.com/elizabeth-clare-prophet/150_happy-birthday-mo
> > m_2006.html
> >
> > In a previous post someone mentioned Emma Hardinge Britten. As far as I
> am
> > aware, Emma Britten was one of the first members of the TS. In 1876 she
> > published "Art Magic", a book which was recently re-edited by Marc
> Demarest.
> > Yesterday I was searching for that passage about the "torch-bearer of
> truth"
> > in the Portuguese version of the "Key to Theosophy" and in the previous
> page
> > I found strong criticism by Blavatsky about "Art Magic".
> >
> > She wrote: "The cycle of "Adepts," used as sledge-hammers to break the
> > theosophical heads with, began twelve years ago, with Mrs. Emma Hardinge
> > Britten's "Louis" of Art Magic and Ghost-Land, and now ends with the
> "Adept"
> > and "Author" of The Light of Egypt, a work written by Spiritualists
> against
> > Theosophy and its teachings."
> >
> > "The spiritualistic author of Art Magic, etc., may or may not have been
> > acquainted with such an Adept [Louis, who according to Emma Britten, gave
> > much of the information contained in the book]â and saying this, I say
> far
> > less than what that lady has said and written about us and Theosophy for
> the
> > last several years â that is her own business."
> >
> > Blavatsky and Emma became enemies right after the release of Art Magic?
> When
> > did Emma leave the TS?
> >
> > About the 20th century "torch bearer of truth", I found these two
> articles
> > written by Carrithers:
> >
> > http://blavatskyfoundation.org/torch.pdf
> >
> > http://blavatskyfoundation.org/hasdamodarreturned.pdf
> >
> > and also this one published in the Winter of 2008 in Fohat
> >
> > http://www.theosophyonline.com/ler.php?id=298
> >
> > which are of some interest, concerning this subject.
> >
> > When we look to the last quarter of the 20th century we see a
> popularization
> > of the concepts of karma and reincarnation, mainly through the hands of
> men
> > of science. We have Raymond Moody Jr's "Life after Life" released in 1975
> > about NDEs. In 1977, the first academic article by prof. Ian Stevenson
> about
> > reincarnation was accepted by a medical journal (his work gave strong
> > support to the advocates of reincarnation). We could even add Brian
> Weiss'
> > books about past lives, the first being published in 1988. Buddhist
> > teachings spread widely in the West during the 1975-2000 period.
> >
> > In astrology, we had the resurge of ancient techniques, with the
> translation
> > of valuable old books by astrologers like Robert Hand, Robert Zoller and
> > Robert Schmidt, all of them with an extensive knowledge of Greek or/and
> > Latin. This had a tremendous impact in the Art.
> >
> > It is quite clear for me that the common man of our Western societies has
> > heard a lot about karma and reincarnation in the last 35 years. Movies
> (and
> > even soap operas) used them as plot devices. Despite of all that happened
> in
> > the 60's I guess that those concepts were not that popular in 1975 as
> they
> > are now.
> > There was not an intervention of a "torch- bearer of truth", nor did the
> TS
> > had an important role in the 1975-2000 period. Taking HPB words
> literally,
> > we can hypothesize that the course of events led to a change of strategy,
> > and the option was to popularize two core concepts, benefiting from the
> > visibility and credibility that men of science have. Of course we could
> > discuss some of their methods, especially in the case of Brian Weiss.
> >
> > I am sure that all that happened in the TS after Blavatsky's death surely
> > impeded the TS of being the body that could continue the work of its
> > Founders. I certainly agree with Carrithers and Redfern on this.
> >
> > Blavatsky's words were:
> > "Towards the close of each century you will invariably find that an
> > outpouring or upheaval of spirituality â or call it mysticism if you
> prefer
> > â has taken place. "
> >
> > And the question that has to be asked is if this happened in the last
> > quarter of the 20th century or not. In my opinion, yes, it has.
> >
> > PB
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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> 
>

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